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Why switch from Atahualpa to Montezuma


  #1  
Old May 7, 2013, 12:24 AM
Fux
 
142 posts · Apr 2009
Hi,
the title pretty much says it all: Why would i want to swtich from Atahualpa to Montezuma? Should I, anyway? What would be my advantages? More performance (i.e. less bloating, faster response times, less css, less anything)? Better mobile compatibility? Better compatibility in every area (I imagine the HTML5 thing might be a problem for people with older machines - is my assumuption wrong?)?

I am interested in everything that improves the site experience for my readers (and does not deteriorate it for anyone) so I am sincerely interested in this. Is Montezuma just better than Atahualpa when it comes to end-user experience?
  #2  
Old May 7, 2013, 04:32 AM
juggledad's Avatar
juggledad
 
23,627 posts · Mar 2009
OSX 10.11.5 WP 4.x Atahualpa(all) Safari, Firefox, Chrome
Different themes do different things - Atahualpa you know, easy to customize, Montezuma built to be responsive but the backend it totally different, in my mind you need know CSS and php to customize it.

As for performance, no idea and I don't think anyone has done any studies on the subject.

Last edited by lmilesw; May 7, 2013 at 05:35 AM.
  #3  
Old May 7, 2013, 07:10 AM
Chuck M
 
19 posts · Feb 2011
I'm studying and converting to responsive web design. So Montezuma is of interest. Is there a write-up or review of Montezuma you can recommend? (I can search, but help in separating the wheat from the chaff can be a big timesaver.)

Two things I'd hope to know are 1) how involved the transition would be in my time and thus the cost to my client. (I try to be very affordable.) And 2) whether Montezuma will likely be developing into a "major player" with major development, or is perhaps more likely to be a side channel that won't "shine as brightly" as Atahualpa?
  #4  
Old May 7, 2013, 07:41 AM
r302.ice
 
6 posts · May 2013
Hi, Juggledad!

you write:

"Different themes do different things - Atahualpa you know, easy to customize, Montezuma built to be responsive but the backend it totally different" ....

And what about ThemeFrame? Is it easy to customize ....
  #5  
Old May 7, 2013, 11:08 AM
juggledad's Avatar
juggledad
 
23,627 posts · Mar 2009
OSX 10.11.5 WP 4.x Atahualpa(all) Safari, Firefox, Chrome
ThemeFrame is a theme creation tool, not a theme. like comparing apples and oranges with different seed catalogues
  #6  
Old May 7, 2013, 12:22 PM
r302.ice
 
6 posts · May 2013
OK. Thanks.
  #7  
Old May 7, 2013, 11:04 PM
jerryc
 
367 posts · Oct 2012
Florida
I looked at Atahualpa and many other themes and they didn't have enough for me to migrate to WP. Then, when MZ was released, it had all the pieces I needed, and am making the transition. It's long and sometimes difficult, but I consider it very worthwhile.
  #8  
Old May 8, 2013, 11:41 PM
Fux
 
142 posts · Apr 2009
Thanks - but what about compatibility? Is Montezuma "safe and easy to use" for all browsers and devices? I am considering a switch partially because I want to offer mobile users a god experience which I feel is not that easy using Atahualpa. Montezuma sounds great but I am not enough of a web technician to judge whteher HTML5 for example is supported wide enough etc.
  #9  
Old May 8, 2013, 11:52 PM
jerryc
 
367 posts · Oct 2012
Florida
Mobile devices are way more likely to be current than desktops. MZ handles both extremely well. It does ignore some real old IE browsers, but those users are pretty used to lots of websites not looking very good, and they are now less than 1% of the browser share.
  #10  
Old May 10, 2013, 07:47 PM
CrouchingBruin's Avatar
CrouchingBruin
 
299 posts · Aug 2010
Santa Monica, CA
With so many people browsing the internet using mobile devices, web designers are just going to have to make their sites more accessible to them, because that will soon be the norm; more and more people are going to expect your site to be mobile-friendly. If it hasn't happened already, more people around the world will be accessing web sites on a mobile device than on a traditional laptop or desktop. If users have a hard time browsing and navigating your site on an iPhone (i.e., they constantly have to zoom in to read your site), they won't be coming back, at least not very often. That is where I see the strength of Montezuma over Atahualpa. Take a look at some of the sites in the Showing Off thread (especially the sites that papalagi has put together) on both a desktop and a mobile device, and you'll really see the strength of using Montezuma.

I've created one new site from the ground up using Montezuma and I'm in the middle of converting two existing sites from Atahualpa over to Montezuma, because in the long run, it will be worth the effort. Making your site mobile-friendly is one way to really make it stand out, and gives your users a better experience. Plus, it will make you more marketable.

Last edited by CrouchingBruin; May 10, 2013 at 07:52 PM.
  #11  
Old May 13, 2013, 11:28 AM
Chuck M
 
19 posts · Feb 2011
I've been looking (sans success to date) to get some idea on converting a current 10-page site from Atahualpa to a responsive Montezuma. So I can share the idea with my small biz client. Is it a major effort? How, speaking generally, does one go about it? Would an intermediate designer, not code warrior, be in too deep?

I installed and activated Montezuma. Briefly. The site looked very broken.
  #12  
Old May 13, 2013, 12:48 PM
jerryc
 
367 posts · Oct 2012
Florida
If it's mostly a site of static pages, did you try setting the template to page.php?

Last edited by jerryc; May 13, 2013 at 04:36 PM.
  #13  
Old May 13, 2013, 01:23 PM
Chuck M
 
19 posts · Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryc
If it most a site of pages, did you try setting the template to page.php?
It's a static site, no blog. So I will look for Montezuma theme options and then look for page.php. Thank you.
  #14  
Old May 13, 2013, 02:33 PM
juggledad's Avatar
juggledad
 
23,627 posts · Mar 2009
OSX 10.11.5 WP 4.x Atahualpa(all) Safari, Firefox, Chrome
Chuck, it would be helpful to see the current site.
  #15  
Old May 13, 2013, 02:38 PM
Chuck M
 
19 posts · Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by juggledad
Chuck, it would be helpful to see the current site.
That's easy enough. abcaudiology.com

Recently added the WordPress Menu dropdown menu. The top "story," Audiologist of the Year, currently is 3 image blocks from Photoshop - but it will be redone as legit HTML text, etc. Wouldn't want the search engines to feel slighted...
  #16  
Old May 13, 2013, 04:05 PM
juggledad's Avatar
juggledad
 
23,627 posts · Mar 2009
OSX 10.11.5 WP 4.x Atahualpa(all) Safari, Firefox, Chrome
@Chuck,
Yes you will be able to recreate the site - it will take some work and learning and it won't be a 100% duplicate, but it's doable.
  #17  
Old May 13, 2013, 04:53 PM
Chuck M
 
19 posts · Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by juggledad
@Chuck,
Yes you will be able to recreate the site - it will take some work and learning and it won't be a 100% duplicate, but it's doable.
Last question: Hope it's a reasonable one. Is there how to documentation somewhere? I haven't found it yet. It's a free theme so my expectations are modest. But is there Help inside the theme itself? Or a tutorial someplace? Perhaps at the WP Codex? (Be nice if there was a discussion list for folks working with Montezuma.)

Thanks. Over & out.
  #18  
Old May 13, 2013, 05:32 PM
juggledad's Avatar
juggledad
 
23,627 posts · Mar 2009
OSX 10.11.5 WP 4.x Atahualpa(all) Safari, Firefox, Chrome
As far as I know no one has written a guide to Montezuma. I keep thinking about it and then say

"Hmmm I know this since I've played with it a lot. I could write a great detailed guide for Montezuma (and/or Atahualpa and or debugging/problem solving in general) but it would take me quite a bit of time to write it and when I'ml done, what will I get out of it?'

I could play with my grandkids, work in the garden or write a 'how to' book and have no guarantee of making anything off of it. See the issue....

Last edited by juggledad; May 13, 2013 at 05:38 PM.
  #19  
Old May 13, 2013, 07:50 PM
jerryc
 
367 posts · Oct 2012
Florida
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck M
Is there how to documentation somewhere?
There's quite a bit at:

Dashboard > appearance > Montezuma options

Quote:
Be nice if there was a discussion list for folks working with Montezuma.)
This forum is it. I've seen very few things that weren't solved, and most were solved very quickly.

This thread might help, too.
  #20  
Old May 13, 2013, 08:02 PM
Chuck M
 
19 posts · Feb 2011
Quote:
I could play with my grandkids, work in the garden or write a 'how to' book and have no guarantee of making anything off of it. See the issue....
Well, if Atahualpa is the most popular WordPress theme (and I think I've read that it is). And if responsive web development is more than a fad (I'm betting it's the future approaching fast; betting it will soon become so engrained that they stop calling it responsive, it'll just be the way sites are normally done - because handheld devices will soon dominate the Internet). And if Montezuma is the new and well-written-about responsive sibling to Atahualpa, and it is.

Then it seems inescapable that thousands of people (and not unlikely X10, X100 or more) will be wanting to know how to convert from the old to the new.

I certainly wouldn't want to deprive your grandkids while you labored over a book. But I bet the kids could share you long enough for you to produce a Quickstart Guide. Could self-publish it, common these days. Or perhaps better could distribute it by email.

I'm a Social Security wretch, but I'd toss in ten bucks. I think many others would too. And if the interest warrants, a quickstart could grow into a book. Might be enough to send one or more of those kids to college...
  #21  
Old May 13, 2013, 08:24 PM
Chuck M
 
19 posts · Feb 2011
jerryc -

I'm intrigued by the thread you linked to, and have printed it out. Good coffeehouse reading.

My first impression of this forum was that it was to say very basic things about the themes - without getting into specifics and how to's. If the nuts & bolts are welcome here, great. Glad to be wrong.

Right now, I owe it to the forum to stifle my questions until I've taken in your suggestion:

Dashboard > Appearance > Montezuma options

Some software shops have Support and also Premium Support. You pay a bit more and get fast answers in good detail. (That's the theory, at least.) Would the Gold membership here have any equivalency to that? How does one go Gold? What does it mean? (If it means one knows a lot, then I'll put it out of mind for quite a while.)

Chuck M
  #22  
Old May 13, 2013, 10:02 PM
jerryc
 
367 posts · Oct 2012
Florida
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck M
Some software shops have Support and also Premium Support. You pay a bit more and get fast answers in good detail. (That's the theory, at least.) Would the Gold membership here have any equivalency to that? How does one go Gold? What does it mean?
Donate $20 or more to the forum and you get priority help by posting your question to the gold forum. You can donate it generically, or you can designate one of the moderators whose help has been most useful to you. I think there are only two, juggledad and lmilesw.
  #23  
Old May 14, 2013, 08:01 AM
Chuck M
 
19 posts · Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryc
Donate $20 or more to the forum and you get priority help by posting your question to the gold forum. ....
When I found the Gold forum and clicked on it I got this message:

There are no posts in this forum.

But the thread table seemed to show 4 threads. Perhaps that means I (not having donated yet) am not entitled to look. Which in a forum that presumably seeks to assist folks in using Montezuma would seem an odd choice. I might have thought it would be: Go Gold to post; everyone welcome to look.

Otherwise, don't the people who generously volunteer their time and know-how have to repeat themselves a lot? Won't much of the best info be hidden from those starting to climb the learning curve?

I don't presume to tell anyone how this forum should be run. I don't pretend to certain understanding of how it is run.

Guess I'm simply trying to ascertain if A) this a good place to find answers to some of my questions about how to use Montezuma; or B) this can be my main source of Montezuma info - the place that will reliably answer my questions, where I can share things I learn along the way. $20 is reasonable to have a learning resource for the Montezuma theme. The question may be: how big a role is the forum intending to play in supporting Montezuma?

Either option is to me positive. It's a matter of adjusting my expectations to realistic levels.
  #24  
Old May 14, 2013, 08:40 AM
lmilesw's Avatar
lmilesw
 
10,174 posts · Jul 2009
Central New York State USA
The purpose of the Gold Forum is a repository of "special" information with the added advantage of your posts being bumped up in priority. This doesn't mean all questions always get answers however as we are volunteers and have other priorities as well.

When I first found this forum I think one of the first things I did was donate $20 just because I wanted to support the work not even thinking much about what I would get in return.

A forum like this could be a full time job and we like helping people but the donations limit the amount of time we can realistically spend answering them.
__________________
~Larry (CNY Web Designs)
This site should be a membership site since it so full of good stuff.
Please consider donating which gives you access to even more good stuff.
  #25  
Old May 14, 2013, 09:12 AM
Chuck M
 
19 posts · Feb 2011
Well, as I said, this is a good place however you define yourself. I make no demands. Just trying to figure out how what the BFA Forum is comfortable offering interfaces with my needs.

Trust you view that as a reasonable inquiry. As a Social Security guy, a twenty buck expenditure has to rise above nice and get pretty darn close to necessary.

I don't have a lot of time to weigh options on this project. But right now Montezuma with its lack of guaranteed support seems like a good option for a WordPress veteran -- and I am not that. A premium responsive theme with assured built-in support might better serve my intermediate skills.

Whatever I decide, when I visit here, I will do my best to be a good forum citizen.

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