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[SOLVED] Why I Hate Upgrading Atahualpa


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  #1  
Old Dec 16, 2012, 08:18 PM
ctoews's Avatar
ctoews
 
3 posts · Nov 2009
Summerland, BC Canada
Why is it that every time I install an upgrade of the theme, it has overwritten my custom header and the like. If it is necessary to replace all the files in the theme directory, please make it possible for me to place my headers, logos, etc... in a location that will not be affected by an update.

I use Atahualpa on a number of web-sites - both personal and client sites - and every time I see that there is an update I am both excited and filled with dread.
  #2  
Old Dec 16, 2012, 09:01 PM
lmilesw's Avatar
lmilesw
 
10,053 posts · Jul 2009
Central New York State USA
There are some work arounds to eliminate the need to to re upload the images such as using relative paths for the logo and using a plugin for the rotating images. I also name the files that I have uploaded with the same prefix so they are all together in the images folder. That way I can just download and upload easily.

A manual update also is another solution but that does require changing the paths in the theme options.

I also don't upgrade my theme in many instances.
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  #3  
Old Dec 20, 2012, 10:35 AM
quintain
 
68 posts · Nov 2010
I also dislike updating ATA because of header images.

Does WP 3.5 now have a procedure that solves this (updating ATA) problem???
  #4  
Old Dec 20, 2012, 08:36 PM
tbaxter
 
79 posts · May 2012
Germantown, MD
Miles-you mention you don't often upgrade your theme... What about when there's an upgrade around a new WP upgrade (as in the case w/WP 3.5)? Is there a need to upgrade Atahualpa to make it play nice with WP?

I, like the original writer of this thread, and terrified to upgrade. I'm currently working on a site with a huge number of photos... (lots of galleries using NextGen)... if I have to alter every url I will go insane.

I've tried using relative urls before for page links/file links, and they often don't work... which means a TON of manual labor at upgrade time... Any recommendations/plugins to help with this?
  #5  
Old Dec 20, 2012, 08:56 PM
lmilesw's Avatar
lmilesw
 
10,053 posts · Jul 2009
Central New York State USA
The only path changes you have to make during a Manual upgrade is in the theme options. As mentioned in other areas of the forum there are ways to mitigate those changes as well. There have only been a couple of times that I felt a theme upgrade was necessary. But again I don't find upgrades very cumbersome and typically use the manual method.
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  #6  
Old Dec 20, 2012, 11:51 PM
tbaxter
 
79 posts · May 2012
Germantown, MD
Well, I braced myself and went ahead and did a manual upgrade, to cure my fear of it.

And it worked fine! Thanks for the encouragement. Followed Juggledad's instructions, and everything worked.
  #7  
Old Dec 21, 2012, 05:16 AM
juggledad's Avatar
juggledad
 
21,965 posts · Mar 2009
OSX 10.8.5 WP 3.8.x Atahualpa 3.7.x Safari 6.x Firefox 25 XP
BTY - check out this thread: How to: save your LOGO image over upgrades

I'm waiting on a response from Flynn on a possible header image solution...(don't get too excited, it may not fly)
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  #8  
Old Dec 22, 2012, 08:42 AM
PortMaria.62's Avatar
PortMaria.62
 
19 posts · Dec 2009
wyoming
I have never lost my header images and I know next to nothing about wordpress. what are you folks doing? do you follow the instructions?
  #9  
Old Jan 5, 2013, 09:33 PM
johanM
 
16 posts · Jun 2010
wp virtuall can do child them for any theme, including ata. Using child theme can save your next update. You can change the images directory to anywhere you like. You can create your own custom header function based on your child theme, you only need to include function you create in your child theme function.php.

for example, you have a custom header function call bfa_child_header_config(){...}, copy header.php from ata to your child theme and replace

<?php echo bfa_header_config(); ?>
with
<?php echo bfa_child_header_config(); ?>

No longer worry the update.

Code:
http://codex.wordpress.org/Child_Themes
  #10  
Old Jan 21, 2013, 08:23 PM
emanuel1969's Avatar
emanuel1969
 
133 posts · Apr 2010
California
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I've been using Athualpa for all my sites for many years, and I really don't understand why you don't make an update that allows us to upload a header image directly from the dashboard, rather than having to use FTP. Many other themes have this option, and it would clear up a lot of troubles in updating the theme, as well as help newbies (people who have never used ftp) quite a lot.

In any case, thanks for a great theme!
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  #11  
Old Jan 23, 2013, 07:00 AM
juggledad's Avatar
juggledad
 
21,965 posts · Mar 2009
OSX 10.8.5 WP 3.8.x Atahualpa 3.7.x Safari 6.x Firefox 25 XP
Quote:
I've been using Athualpa for all my sites for many years, and I really don't understand why you don't make an update that allows us to upload a header image directly from the dashboard, rather than having to use FTP.
I'll explain the situation.

When Atahualpa was first coded by Flynn, any file the theme used had to be in the theme folder and that meant images. As the theme evolved, Flynn figured a way to allow PHP in the theme options so you actually could have your header images out side the theme folders and not be affected by updates BUT... Then wordpress made it a requirement that themes could not use the eval() function which meant the use of php in theme options was no longer possible.

Now at this point, WordPress has deemed that a theme can use images outside the theme files, but only if you do it their way or use a plugin.

Now why isn't it being done you ask? I've actually done the coding for the ast few releases and I could do some coding to make it possible to have the images outside the theme folder, but it would take me some time to do it. Probally a good 20-40 hours of planning, coding, testing, documenting and when I was all done, what would I have gained from it besides a lot of people who would be happy to use this new feature?

Would I have made any money? nope. Would I have spent more time with my grandkids? nope. Would I have made more money from my paying customers? nope.

so what's my motivation? and what is Flynn's motivation?
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  #12  
Old Jan 23, 2013, 08:33 PM
noel.odesk
 
12 posts · Jan 2013
Netherlands
Juggledad, I totally understand what you are saying and I really agree that family and money are factors not to be ignored.
Also, I am glad I have finally found your explanation for why it doesn't support child-themes as it was meant, which after reading your comment makes sense.

But on the other hand, we (the users of this fantastic framework) are now stuck not with 20-40 hours of work, but with 1 hour each time an update causes the settings to be removed, plus the frustration of clients who we served websites to using Atahualpa. Multiply that by 10-50 clients per avg. webdeveloper and you can imagine the nightmare both developers as clients are facing without the option to preserve a favicon, overrule parent settings from a childtheme or other settings that should be able to be configured and preserved by childthemes.

Personally, I chose this framework over all the other, because I was under the impression that the support was awesome, the idea being backed up by the huge amounts of downloads this framework has in relation to a lot of other frameworks, both free as paid.

To form a better picture, are you actually stating that both you as Flynn, or any other developer working on it will not consider making the framework compatible with the parent/child idea which is recommended usage by Wordpress.org and other established players in this area?
Because not to sound harsh, mind you I love all the options Ata has to offer, but I have seen a couple of frameworks and themes now not being compatible with the parent/child setup. And I really do believe that most webdevelopers will move over to child-theme supported frameworks and themes pretty fast, after losing their settings and with that a couple of hundred hours on the long run.

What is necessary exactly to make the framework compliant with regular wp child themes, aside of money as motivator.
Anything we as developers / end-users can do to help with?
  #13  
Old Jan 23, 2013, 09:24 PM
lmilesw's Avatar
lmilesw
 
10,053 posts · Jul 2009
Central New York State USA
I'll just throw my 2 cents in. Atahualpa can be configured to be upgrade proof with the addition of a widget area for the banner images and relative paths for the logo and/or favicon.
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  #14  
Old Jan 24, 2013, 03:31 AM
juggledad's Avatar
juggledad
 
21,965 posts · Mar 2009
OSX 10.8.5 WP 3.8.x Atahualpa 3.7.x Safari 6.x Firefox 25 XP
Quote:
What is necessary exactly to make the framework compliant with regular wp child themes, aside of money as motivator.
Time and knowledge of the theme code.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. If you want to see continued updates to the theme and continued support then you should be donating on a regular basis. After all, if your a web developer, aren't you getting paid for you work?
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Last edited by juggledad; Jan 24, 2013 at 03:36 AM.
  #15  
Old Jan 24, 2013, 06:36 AM
noel.odesk
 
12 posts · Jan 2013
Netherlands
@lmilesw:
Even though upgrade proof is of course a good work-around, just as well as another work-around that I already found to include and preserve the favicon in the functions.php of the child.
Nevertheless, they are still work-arounds and not in line with compliance of a regular child-theme as suggested by wordpress and followed up by all other major framework theme developers.

This download still states:
"Atahualpa is #1 in total downloads and maintained since 2007. Active community at forum.bytesforall.com."
So there must be 1 or 2 extra ppl beside you guys, here in the community, that can offer you time or knowledge to hep you guys stay on top, no?
(looks around, hoping to see anyone raise their finger... )


@juggledad:
To be honest, I do get paid for the projects I work on where I am hired for them, but I contribute to various opensource platforms at the same time for free, about 10-20% of my time.
Most of my income comes from hired support, not from my free development.
Demanding regular donations for an open source product doesn't seem correct to me, nor in line with the idea of GPL.
Yet, I did just donate you that beer by PayPal that I promised by pm yesterday.
Also, I don't have enough php/sql knowledge yet to offer you help on that side, but if there is anything I can do for you guys to help you get that child theme support up and running, thereby making it possible to keep offering this great theme to both developers as end-users, then I'd be very willing to. And do feel free to contact me to spar about specific idea's.

In an attempt to stretch out the impact of this non-compliance, allow me to make another comparison:
If your Microsoft Windows would lose all of it's configured options after each update, but Linux keeps them - or the other way around if you prefer- what would you do after 2 or 3 times losing a couple of hours?
On the other hand, if you keep the framework compatible with the common wp-requirements, wouldn't that not only keep users, but also possibly attract more users to the community and hence increase the possibility of an increased amount of donations?
  #16  
Old Jan 24, 2013, 06:57 AM
noel.odesk
 
12 posts · Jan 2013
Netherlands
I have just sent you 2 a concrete offer by pm. Let me know if you guys are interested to see if we can make this work.

At the same time, everyone reading this post and willing to contribute a little bit of either their time or money to get this framework to be child-theme compliant, feel free to jump in.
  #17  
Old Jan 24, 2013, 07:37 AM
lmilesw's Avatar
lmilesw
 
10,053 posts · Jul 2009
Central New York State USA
Child theme support is not what is needed. What people want is the ability to upgrade the the theme without losing custom settings or having to re-upload custom images. As mentioned there are some easy ways to accomplish that as opposed to rewriting the theme code.
__________________
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This site should be a membership site since it so full of good stuff.
Please consider donating which gives you access to even more good stuff.
  #18  
Old Jan 24, 2013, 07:40 AM
juggledad's Avatar
juggledad
 
21,965 posts · Mar 2009
OSX 10.8.5 WP 3.8.x Atahualpa 3.7.x Safari 6.x Firefox 25 XP
other than the images - what is the need for a child theme?
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  #19  
Old Jan 24, 2013, 07:41 AM
noel.odesk
 
12 posts · Jan 2013
Netherlands
Quote:
Originally Posted by lmilesw
Child theme support is not what is needed. What people want is the ability to upgrade the the theme without losing custom settings or having to re-upload custom images. As mentioned there are some easy ways to accomplish that as opposed to rewriting the theme code.
I partly agree with you. Upgrading the theme without losing settings is only a part of being child-theme compliant, which really ís needed if you want the framework to stay accessible to the mainstream who is used to a uniform way of working, instead of having to figure out for each theme or plugin how the specific way of implementing or updating of it works.
  #20  
Old Jan 24, 2013, 07:45 AM
noel.odesk
 
12 posts · Jan 2013
Netherlands
Quote:
Originally Posted by juggledad
other than the images - what is the need for a child theme?
As replied in my last post, staying accessible to the majority of users, who is used to working that way and don't want to spend time studying the implementation and maintenance of each seperate product.
I really think it's a concerning fact that a framework works great, at the cost of compatibility.
  #21  
Old Jan 24, 2013, 07:53 AM
juggledad's Avatar
juggledad
 
21,965 posts · Mar 2009
OSX 10.8.5 WP 3.8.x Atahualpa 3.7.x Safari 6.x Firefox 25 XP
so you think that the theme should remove all it's options so you have to code css etc in a child theme like all those other themes do?

In my experience Atahualpa removes the need for child themes. This is it's strength and appeal.

However if you want to make a child theme for Atahualpa you can. there is nothing preventing you from makeing a child theme with Atahualpa.
__________________
If you like my help, please consider donating. I am happy to provide greater detail on this and other topics if you hire me. Please send detailed support requests to me as a private message, thank you.
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  #22  
Old Jan 24, 2013, 08:08 AM
noel.odesk
 
12 posts · Jan 2013
Netherlands
Quote:
Originally Posted by juggledad
so you think that the theme should remove all it's options so you have to code css etc in a child theme like all those other themes do?

In my experience Atahualpa removes the need for child themes. This is it's strength and appeal.

However if you want to make a child theme for Atahualpa you can. there is nothing preventing you from making a child theme with Atahualpa.
I think I already stated a couple of times now, that I certainly do nót think any of the great options of Atahualpa should be removed. And I believe that 1,049,029 downloads speak for itself.
All the options should stay in, but like other child-theme supported frameworks, a child theme should be able to overrule the css-settings and functions.php settings, as well as having these settings preserved after an update.

Don't you think it's a bit awkward, to say 'our product is so good that we don't have to stick with the mainstream expectation of compatibility', by saying that you have removed the need for child-support and even stating that "I also don't upgrade my theme in many instances"?
Basically what you're saying is, in the case that you should upgrade because of a security related matter for example, you should either:
a) don't update, with the risk of running into problems later which may cost you hours of work, or
b) update, but either spend time on learning how to upgrade the specific way, or spend time redoing everything because something went wrong during this specific way of updating.

Anyway, I am starting to realise that I am fighting devs who are so convinced about how this product works, that no matter what I say in an attempt to make you realize that compatibility ís a dealbreaker when it comes to an increase or a decrease of who uses your product on long-term, will make you think otherwise.
If even my offer of helping you guys develop it, or outsourcing it out of my own pocket or by raised funds does not make you even consider rewriting the framework to change a major issue into a long-term solution, then sadly it's a lost case imo and I can only hope for you that the majority of your community will keep using the non-compliant framework.

I for one will remove the framework from the sites where I've used it on for now, but I will surely hope for and look forward to the day it will be child-theme compatible so that I can use it's great options again without being concerned whether my client, or a developer who works on the project after me will run into unexpected problems.

Last edited by noel.odesk; Jan 24, 2013 at 08:23 AM.
  #23  
Old Jan 24, 2013, 08:12 AM
noel.odesk
 
12 posts · Jan 2013
Netherlands
On a side note:
I believe I am the only one in this thread who is nót a gold member, so all the others did contribute with probably the expectation of having such issues resolved.
  #24  
Old Jan 24, 2013, 08:45 AM
lmilesw's Avatar
lmilesw
 
10,053 posts · Jul 2009
Central New York State USA
Well... As mentioned
  • There is at least one plugin to add code you would typically add to functions.php
  • There is at least one plugin that allows you to add html code in place of image.php for banner images.
  • You can use relative paths for the logo and favicon
With those three things in place updates can be done without losing any settings and in my mind those are just as simple to use as a child theme.



There is no one theme that will meet the needs of all people.
__________________
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This site should be a membership site since it so full of good stuff.
Please consider donating which gives you access to even more good stuff.
  #25  
Old Jan 24, 2013, 08:55 AM
noel.odesk
 
12 posts · Jan 2013
Netherlands
Quote:
Originally Posted by lmilesw
There is no one theme that will meet the needs of all people.
I fully agree with you on that, and that shouldn't be the goal to aim for. Atahualpa already offers a lot more options to meet the needs of a lot users than other frameworks or parent-themes have to offer.
And to expand those needs is where plugins or widgets come in.

But, as multiple other users also stated here as well, it's not about meeting the needs of people that is the problem.
It's about the fact that even though the work-arounds you gave in this thread are extremely helpful to the ones who come to this forum for a quick-fix, it still ignores the fact that when a developer passes the project on to the next developer, or delivers the project to a client who is almost never familiar with such complex methods of working, the framework does not meet the compliance that is required for an easy accessible and easy maintainable product on long term.

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